1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,080 they're scheduled to share your story 2 00:00:01,829 --> 00:00:07,109 with us and in time to everyone else 3 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,910 we'll be using our website so 50 unit 4 00:00:07,109 --> 00:00:10,889 weigh-in also could surf could you state 5 00:00:08,910 --> 00:00:12,660 your name and your current occupation 6 00:00:10,889 --> 00:00:15,480 yes I am 7 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:19,109 d ah me Bailey I'm a Tennessee Circuit 8 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:22,410 Court Judge which I have occupied that 9 00:00:19,109 --> 00:00:25,260 position since I was elected in 1990 and 10 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:28,050 I'm now in my third year term as a state 11 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:31,199 judge okay could you talk a little bit 12 00:00:28,050 --> 00:00:33,480 about where you were born in late I was 13 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:36,870 born in Memphis actually in a shotgun 14 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:39,440 house on wicks Street overall publicist 15 00:00:36,870 --> 00:00:43,430 tipping Walker and South Memphis between 16 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:51,360 Mississippi Boulevard and Lauderdale and 17 00:00:43,430 --> 00:00:56,879 I was born there in 1941 and my mother 18 00:00:51,360 --> 00:01:00,690 was then doing domestic work I'm not 19 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:03,930 sure she was working for business doing 20 00:01:00,690 --> 00:01:07,020 sort of housekeeping type work and my 21 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:08,790 father was working with his grand with 22 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:15,030 his father my grandfather at the time 23 00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:18,560 and so I grew up in Memphis my 24 00:01:15,030 --> 00:01:21,090 grandfather was a ethical and I'm named 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:24,470 within the carpentry and construction 26 00:01:21,090 --> 00:01:26,970 business he built houses repaired houses 27 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:30,930 and he had a little small sunder store 28 00:01:26,970 --> 00:01:34,740 and a little couple small cotton patches 29 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:38,430 in Memphis and so he wanted my brother 30 00:01:34,740 --> 00:01:42,990 made to go to private school so we went 31 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:45,299 to a small private black school in 32 00:01:42,990 --> 00:01:46,820 Memphis called rosebud kindergarten 33 00:01:45,299 --> 00:01:48,840 school that actually went from 34 00:01:46,820 --> 00:01:53,520 kindergarten through the 5th grade it 35 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:56,250 was won by two black women and so 36 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,810 after tarragon and after fourth grade 37 00:01:56,250 --> 00:01:59,790 for me and a 5th grade for my brother I 38 00:01:57,810 --> 00:02:02,280 went in public schools at LaRose 39 00:01:59,790 --> 00:02:05,399 Elementary and finish high school book 40 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,289 of Washington and 1959 and then I left 41 00:02:05,399 --> 00:02:09,509 message to go to college at Southern 42 00:02:07,289 --> 00:02:11,130 University in Baton Rouge okay let him 43 00:02:09,509 --> 00:02:12,989 talk a little bit about what your home 44 00:02:11,130 --> 00:02:15,840 life like going up in Memphis and that 45 00:02:12,989 --> 00:02:19,230 sort of thing well I think I had what I 46 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:22,530 thought was very rewarding and loving 47 00:02:19,230 --> 00:02:25,739 home experience my brother was a was the 48 00:02:22,530 --> 00:02:27,090 athlete of the family when when when in 49 00:02:25,739 --> 00:02:28,620 high school he played football for 50 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:30,360 Google Washington it was a very 51 00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:33,390 successful athlete there he was 52 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,890 co-captain of the team and and then he 53 00:02:33,390 --> 00:02:38,160 left Memphis to go to Southern on a 54 00:02:34,890 --> 00:02:39,720 football scholarship in 58 and that's 55 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:43,560 how I ended up going southern the 56 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:47,340 following years because he was there my 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:50,040 father being a started working for the 58 00:02:47,340 --> 00:02:52,890 railroad after the early years of 59 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,170 working with my grandfather da Bailey 60 00:02:52,890 --> 00:02:58,290 and because he worked for the railroad 61 00:02:55,170 --> 00:03:02,430 we could travel free here the family and 62 00:02:58,290 --> 00:03:07,019 so daddy used to take my brother and me 63 00:03:02,430 --> 00:03:10,680 on the trains to st. Louis we'd go and 64 00:03:07,019 --> 00:03:13,380 spend up to a couple of nights and go to 65 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,989 the professional baseball games there 66 00:03:13,380 --> 00:03:17,940 with the Brooklyn Dodgers and the 67 00:03:15,989 --> 00:03:20,489 sanctimony Cardinals and we saw some of 68 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:22,650 the early black pioneers of baseball 69 00:03:20,489 --> 00:03:25,500 actually like Jackie Robinson and reward 70 00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:29,220 Kevin Ellen Don Newcombe play we'd go to 71 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:32,880 Detroit in Chicago to those the games as 72 00:03:29,220 --> 00:03:35,370 well as st. Louis and and then we could 73 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,350 visit relatives in Chicago by train and 74 00:03:35,370 --> 00:03:40,829 in Detroit which we had relatives in 75 00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:43,980 those cities and I had an uncle that had 76 00:03:40,829 --> 00:03:49,410 a big farm and Harkins all chuckle 77 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:51,569 Johnnie barrel and the land of his phone 78 00:03:49,410 --> 00:03:54,380 actually went his pores that I could see 79 00:03:51,569 --> 00:03:56,910 from sitting on the front porch of his 80 00:03:54,380 --> 00:03:58,420 two-story rambling white house over 81 00:03:56,910 --> 00:04:01,540 there 82 00:03:58,420 --> 00:04:06,700 and he had people who worked on the farm 83 00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:11,280 and he drove a big Chrysler Hall mobile 84 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:15,220 and he kept a pistol in the glove box in 85 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,590 Walt and I'm a brother Grieg over than 86 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:20,560 some summers and we'd spend a week or 87 00:04:17,590 --> 00:04:22,780 two visited over there and play on a 88 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:26,410 tractor or ride on the tractor and the 89 00:04:22,780 --> 00:04:29,110 Hogs and eat great fresh farmed food 90 00:04:26,410 --> 00:04:31,570 sausage and butter that they made on the 91 00:04:29,110 --> 00:04:33,700 porch and I kind of think so and then 92 00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:38,710 other times in summers we work with my 93 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:40,540 grandfather he had probably a dozen us 94 00:04:38,710 --> 00:04:43,060 old man from town to town that worked 95 00:04:40,540 --> 00:04:45,460 with him in the work that he was doing 96 00:04:43,060 --> 00:04:47,260 and they desert said they'd repair 97 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:49,979 houses and Bill houses and my brother 98 00:04:47,260 --> 00:04:52,770 and I work with them his brother my my 99 00:04:49,979 --> 00:04:56,830 grandfather's brother Albert Bailey 100 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:59,320 painted and I'm sorry he was a pastor 101 00:04:56,830 --> 00:05:01,240 and a Mason me and so he would do the 102 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,600 brickwork and the foundations for the 103 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,460 houses and and my grandfather's people 104 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:10,060 would paint and do the construction 105 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:11,979 until they work together and so my 106 00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:14,789 brother and I agree often work with Papa 107 00:05:11,979 --> 00:05:17,530 during the summer times as well so and 108 00:05:14,789 --> 00:05:22,630 going to brought up in school by grunt 109 00:05:17,530 --> 00:05:26,380 arose but Elementary this a small school 110 00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:28,810 with these two black women it was a very 111 00:05:26,380 --> 00:05:30,700 enriching experience every morning which 112 00:05:28,810 --> 00:05:33,870 started to cool we would sing the Negro 113 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:38,169 national anthem to start the classes and 114 00:05:33,870 --> 00:05:41,410 we were very I think reasonably mannerly 115 00:05:38,169 --> 00:05:43,780 kids and focused kids in fact when I 116 00:05:41,410 --> 00:05:46,090 went into the public schools and the 117 00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:49,180 Rose elementary we were actually I think 118 00:05:46,090 --> 00:05:54,990 academically been ahead of the kids that 119 00:05:49,180 --> 00:05:58,240 were in the school at the time and but 120 00:05:54,990 --> 00:06:01,900 not thinking time you probably even 121 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:05,200 arise to the level of your colleagues or 122 00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:07,060 you or you perhaps fall somewhat but in 123 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,880 any event we did well and I did 124 00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:12,490 and school I wasn't any great all a 125 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,320 student as I am NOT proud of it I wish 126 00:06:12,490 --> 00:06:17,070 it had been but I thought was a good 127 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,660 student a good B student through through 128 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:25,420 the rest of elementary school and high 129 00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:28,060 school what was it like for you growing 130 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:31,060 up in Memphis did you observe anything 131 00:06:28,060 --> 00:06:35,110 that was happening in the city or yes I 132 00:06:31,060 --> 00:06:37,470 did I of course 133 00:06:35,110 --> 00:06:40,600 methyls of when I was growing up in the 134 00:06:37,470 --> 00:06:45,190 1940s and the 1950s was completely 135 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,870 segregated and so my neighborhood which 136 00:06:45,190 --> 00:06:49,240 was right off of Mississippi and Walker 137 00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:55,920 we stayed on Fort place which was one 138 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:58,720 block east of Mississippi Boulevard the 139 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,780 Mississippi little boy church was on 140 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:04,210 Mississippi and that was pastored by a 141 00:07:01,780 --> 00:07:07,300 very prominent black Memphian Blair T 142 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:09,430 Hunt who was also principal later in my 143 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:11,020 high school had been principal 144 00:07:09,430 --> 00:07:13,210 throughout but when I went to high 145 00:07:11,020 --> 00:07:14,980 school there he was principal they also 146 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:19,900 passed did business the people of Ward 147 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:22,360 Church and my home where I grew up was 148 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:26,860 actually back to back with the back yard 149 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:29,500 of the church and so but in that 150 00:07:26,860 --> 00:07:33,370 neighborhood where we were it was kind 151 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:35,220 of a very central area of Memphis this 152 00:07:33,370 --> 00:07:38,500 board the black community was concerned 153 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:40,300 right up the street for me on Walker 154 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:44,800 which was at the end of my street 155 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:46,960 forward fact good place which is mastery 156 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:51,850 was between Williams in South Memphis 157 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:54,910 and in Walker on the South Williams on 158 00:07:51,850 --> 00:07:56,250 the north were on Williams right off of 159 00:07:54,910 --> 00:07:57,730 Mississippi guerrilla war between 160 00:07:56,250 --> 00:08:00,370 Mississippi and Ford 161 00:07:57,730 --> 00:08:04,540 there was the reom Turell hospital which 162 00:08:00,370 --> 00:08:07,900 was a black hospital that had nursing 163 00:08:04,540 --> 00:08:10,660 and doctor stat and then to the South 164 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:15,040 Willis Ford ended at two Walker place 165 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:17,640 and on Walker two blocks from where we 166 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:21,570 were was lamagno in college and 167 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,570 Metropolitan Baptist Church which was 168 00:08:21,850 --> 00:08:27,530 Lodge at that time and in prominent 169 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,510 Church in the black community and in 170 00:08:27,530 --> 00:08:33,700 fact right up the street at the end of 171 00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:40,010 my block on Walker was the Lula Walker 172 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:43,930 clubhouse and legal Walker was the wife 173 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:48,140 of dr. J Walker who was the founder of 174 00:08:43,930 --> 00:08:51,110 Universal Life Insurance Company and and 175 00:08:48,140 --> 00:08:53,300 so his wife where the club was named 176 00:08:51,110 --> 00:08:55,070 after his wife had sponsored I guess by 177 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:58,100 the Walker family but it was sort of a 178 00:08:55,070 --> 00:09:01,130 social gathering place for blacks at 179 00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:04,130 that time socially Memphis my family 180 00:09:01,130 --> 00:09:08,390 wasn't really much into the social 181 00:09:04,130 --> 00:09:10,550 circuit of black Memphis outside of my 182 00:09:08,390 --> 00:09:12,620 family's personal friends people that my 183 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:14,750 daddy knew from the railroad or from 184 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:17,120 playing checkers he liked to play 185 00:09:14,750 --> 00:09:20,270 checkers and pool up at the corner of 186 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,910 Mississippi and Walker and and so but 187 00:09:20,270 --> 00:09:26,750 these were not the black bourgeoisie 188 00:09:21,910 --> 00:09:32,150 class that generally more be in the 189 00:09:26,750 --> 00:09:35,630 legal Walker Clubhouse and then probably 190 00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:38,510 just a couple of blocks away from where 191 00:09:35,630 --> 00:09:40,970 we were on the fourth place there was 192 00:09:38,510 --> 00:09:43,940 the home of dr. J Walker who was the 193 00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:47,510 founder of Universal light and on the 194 00:09:43,940 --> 00:09:49,490 corner right up the street for me was 195 00:09:47,510 --> 00:09:53,020 the people's drugstore that was run by 196 00:09:49,490 --> 00:09:57,020 black pharmacist doctor dr. Pippen and 197 00:09:53,020 --> 00:09:59,480 then also on the corner opposite dr. 198 00:09:57,020 --> 00:10:01,910 Kipp instructional there was the ACE 199 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,910 theater black movie theater so we could 200 00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:08,960 go up there on Saturdays and watched a 201 00:10:03,910 --> 00:10:12,200 cowboy film and the cartoons and all I 202 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:15,850 can and across the street from a theater 203 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:18,950 was the fairway grille which is a very 204 00:10:15,850 --> 00:10:22,500 prominent black restaurant in deficit 205 00:10:18,950 --> 00:10:27,030 popular black question tom 206 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:29,130 and next door to the poor way grill just 207 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:31,350 before you got to the corner of 208 00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:34,400 Mississippi and Walker to the south of 209 00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:38,970 the poor way grill was the abro 210 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:43,800 barbershop and that was run by mr. 211 00:10:38,970 --> 00:10:48,000 Yarborough the barber who had a family 212 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:50,190 relationship with my family and in fact 213 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,820 my mother worked there as a barber she 214 00:10:50,190 --> 00:10:56,850 was one of the first female barbers in 215 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:58,710 Memphis and so she could hair there for 216 00:10:56,850 --> 00:11:01,890 a while a Diablo barber shop and just 217 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:05,280 next to yarrow barber shop was the pool 218 00:11:01,890 --> 00:11:08,490 hall called the curve crv he blew the 219 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,960 Apollo and that's worth people in the 220 00:11:08,490 --> 00:11:13,620 neighborhood including my father would 221 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:15,990 go and she proved those three businesses 222 00:11:13,620 --> 00:11:18,360 now or the fleet Paula and the 223 00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:21,590 barbershop have actually been combined 224 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,970 into the four-way grill which is my 225 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:25,590 school classmate in one of my best 226 00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:28,080 friends in school that still is one of 227 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:29,790 my best friends with her abates is the 228 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,700 owner and manager the four-way grill 229 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:34,920 where he took the three properties and 230 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:37,620 converted them and expanded the 231 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:42,300 restaurant which he now operates and 232 00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:44,940 actually next to the big Apollo right on 233 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:48,210 the actual corner of Mississippi Walker 234 00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:52,500 there was another business and I think 235 00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:57,930 it was plunger a dry cleaning business 236 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:59,070 there so we were so I lived I grew up in 237 00:11:57,930 --> 00:12:01,020 the neighborhood where there were a 238 00:11:59,070 --> 00:12:05,160 number of services and businesses and 239 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:08,820 black professionals and and and right 240 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,960 down the street from almost near where 241 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:14,190 dr. 242 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:18,240 Walker lid was the st. Roch clinic ro CH 243 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:22,110 and that was the site of our plank was 244 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,570 run by dr. James W Jose Torres EE and 245 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:26,430 doctors was a black physician that was 246 00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:30,510 very active in the Catholic Church in 247 00:12:26,430 --> 00:12:33,960 and he had a very active medical 248 00:12:30,510 --> 00:12:35,700 practice there fact a year so while I 249 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,760 was in high school I used to work for 250 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:40,530 him I'd go down to his clinic at 3 251 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,150 o'clock after I got out of school and I 252 00:12:40,530 --> 00:12:44,820 would relieve the nurse who had worked 253 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:47,610 when they opened for the morning and 254 00:12:44,820 --> 00:12:50,700 she'd leave that 3i take over from her 255 00:12:47,610 --> 00:12:52,890 and I would man the reception desk and 256 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:55,320 also help him but make sure his 257 00:12:52,890 --> 00:12:57,300 instruments and sterilized assist him 258 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,920 when he was treating his patients get 259 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:01,080 him his gauze and his instruments and 260 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,060 those kind of things so I worked for dr. 261 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,750 Ho's there for awhile I also worked at 262 00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:08,130 the direction of it as a delivery boy 263 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:14,010 during part of that time people's drugs 264 00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:16,890 darou and so that was kind of the 265 00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:18,840 environment address of the neighborhood 266 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:21,810 I remember when I was at people's drugs 267 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,190 to his delivery boy and people could 268 00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:25,860 call the drug store and they don't water 269 00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:28,590 ice cream dr. Pippen would send out 270 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:31,020 hand-packed pints or half pints of ice 271 00:13:28,590 --> 00:13:34,680 cream to people that takes an outlook or 272 00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:37,770 lastly prescriptions he would send and 273 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:40,080 and those were mainly things of that 274 00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:41,820 delivered were prescriptions and and ice 275 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:46,080 cream to people in the neighborhood on 276 00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:47,790 my bicycle and and when I wasn't working 277 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,610 there are delivering things that when 278 00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:52,680 things were quiet he had a magazine rack 279 00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:56,070 right there and as you went into the 280 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:58,440 drugstore and it was a wire rack with a 281 00:13:56,070 --> 00:14:01,350 bunch of little compartments and we have 282 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:04,160 magazines black magazines from all 283 00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:08,880 around the country 284 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:11,040 bronze tuile sepia Bernadette newspapers 285 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,390 like the Pittsburgh courier and the 286 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,810 Chicago Defender Atlanta 287 00:14:13,390 --> 00:14:19,870 world the Memphis world evany magazine 288 00:14:16,810 --> 00:14:21,550 jet so I could sit there when I wasn't 289 00:14:19,870 --> 00:14:23,380 working and read all of these magazines 290 00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:26,560 and that really kind of helped me to 291 00:14:23,380 --> 00:14:28,330 become aware of a lot of things it's the 292 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,420 civil rights movement unfolded because 293 00:14:28,330 --> 00:14:33,640 it was the black press which was which 294 00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:36,520 was given the initial intensive coverage 295 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:43,300 to things like Little Rock and a mate'll 296 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:45,490 kid killing in 1955 I think it was so I 297 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:47,340 as I was and then the kids from the 298 00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:49,780 minoan 299 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:51,790 the college students they would walk 300 00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:53,770 from the college up to the drugstore and 301 00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:55,990 they come in there and when I got out of 302 00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:59,770 school and had ice cream and and the 303 00:14:55,990 --> 00:15:02,410 like so I well I didn't know them 304 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:04,840 personally that much but I did get 305 00:15:02,410 --> 00:15:06,640 exposed at least in that respect by 306 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,730 being there as these students from the 307 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,380 Monell in college were coming in sounds 308 00:15:09,730 --> 00:15:15,010 like a lot we're going on is what I 309 00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:17,260 never knew that you talked about going 310 00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:20,500 to college at Southern University and 311 00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:22,030 will you be in the right house a little 312 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,590 bit about your experiences in college 313 00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:25,360 and what was it like the year especially 314 00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:29,110 coming from nesters and going to 315 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:31,210 Louisiana yes and I might add I 316 00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:34,060 mentioned dr. Pippins people's drugstore 317 00:15:31,210 --> 00:15:36,160 that that that location which is on the 318 00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:39,700 southeast corner of Mississippi and 319 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:41,500 Walker prior to dr. purple having it and 320 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:43,840 and I don't know what was that just 321 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:45,670 before that but that was also a location 322 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,850 why I to be Wells published her 323 00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:51,040 newspaper and and I didn't realize a 324 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:53,470 connection until sometime later but it 325 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,330 dawned on me that probably the reason 326 00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:57,490 that was nine people's drugstore was 327 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:59,050 because of the connection with either be 328 00:15:57,490 --> 00:16:01,180 wells of that I mentioned crusade I 329 00:15:59,050 --> 00:16:02,140 don't know that but it was rather 330 00:16:01,180 --> 00:16:03,900 unusual name 331 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:09,070 call the drugstore people's trucks do it 332 00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:11,170 but when I went off to Southern that 333 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:14,050 brother had gone before me to play 334 00:16:11,170 --> 00:16:18,070 football and so he was down there and I 335 00:16:14,050 --> 00:16:21,840 got the in 59 I had been involved toward 336 00:16:18,070 --> 00:16:24,580 my junior dinghy at Buca Washington 337 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,710 vaulted my brother and I we had worked 338 00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:29,110 with the black political leaders and 339 00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:34,410 lawyers who would then begin to organize 340 00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:37,480 on civil rights efforts there was a very 341 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:40,540 probably the most influential black 342 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:45,280 organization at the time was the Shelby 343 00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:48,040 County Democratic Club and that 344 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,440 organization sort of helped to get 345 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:53,740 blacks involved in politics and help to 346 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,960 organize the black vote probably up 347 00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:59,370 until the time of the Shelby County 348 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:02,680 Democratic Club the black bone was not 349 00:16:59,370 --> 00:17:04,510 focused at least in my recollection of 350 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,370 course not at this time I because I was 351 00:17:04,510 --> 00:17:09,820 growing up I was in my team so I can't 352 00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:11,860 be an expert about it but I remember the 353 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:14,829 Chicago crack club being the most active 354 00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:17,110 his things developed and working along 355 00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:25,660 with some leaders of the n-double a-c-p 356 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:28,990 and so the before that blacks were 357 00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:31,750 voting in Memphis but Memphis had been 358 00:17:28,990 --> 00:17:36,280 under the control of the political 359 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:39,760 influence of Boss Hogg pH problem and so 360 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,670 even though blacks voted we were apart 361 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:46,630 as I understand the history of the Coke 362 00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:49,060 machine vote so we were going for the 363 00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:51,400 people that co-op wanted in office and 364 00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:54,760 crop had leaders in the Memphis black 365 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,710 community who helped him direct that and 366 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,600 control that black vote and those same 367 00:17:56,710 --> 00:18:01,150 leaders could then help blacks to get 368 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,700 jobs or little things intended to the 369 00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:07,389 plights are concerned about so and my 370 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:10,829 principal Blair T hunt was one of the 371 00:18:07,389 --> 00:18:13,509 primary leaders of that effort to 372 00:18:10,829 --> 00:18:18,249 influence blackboard and direct black 373 00:18:13,509 --> 00:18:20,139 gold and XP for the crop machine and if 374 00:18:18,249 --> 00:18:24,389 you want things done in return you could 375 00:18:20,139 --> 00:18:29,919 go to Blair Hunt and you could get done 376 00:18:24,389 --> 00:18:36,369 so when krump died which I think was 377 00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:39,009 around 1955 the Machine basically who 378 00:18:36,369 --> 00:18:41,379 died and so you had blacks with a 379 00:18:39,009 --> 00:18:43,629 tradition of voting but you no longer 380 00:18:41,379 --> 00:18:46,389 had to complete control of that vote by 381 00:18:43,629 --> 00:18:51,099 a political machine and so it gave 382 00:18:46,389 --> 00:18:54,429 blacks is enriched by my perspective the 383 00:18:51,099 --> 00:18:56,619 opportunity to redirect our political 384 00:18:54,429 --> 00:18:59,589 focus with some independence in terms of 385 00:18:56,619 --> 00:19:04,869 our own agenda and at that court sided 386 00:18:59,589 --> 00:19:06,969 with the period between 1955 and 1960 is 387 00:19:04,869 --> 00:19:09,599 the civil rights movement was beginning 388 00:19:06,969 --> 00:19:12,669 to develop and so it became a natural 389 00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:15,279 progression that the black board talk 390 00:19:12,669 --> 00:19:18,399 has shifted from being controlled by the 391 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:20,259 cop machine to trying to help develop 392 00:19:18,399 --> 00:19:22,329 this of whites agenda and so we were 393 00:19:20,259 --> 00:19:24,519 then trying to help support quite 394 00:19:22,329 --> 00:19:26,950 candidates who were not supportive of 395 00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:29,979 racial segregation and we were beginning 396 00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:32,499 to see a handful of white candidates who 397 00:19:29,979 --> 00:19:35,440 were running for office who were not 398 00:19:32,499 --> 00:19:37,389 supporting segregation and who were also 399 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,119 looking to get the both of the black 400 00:19:37,389 --> 00:19:42,309 community people like Frank Clement who 401 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,499 became governor of Tennessee that got 402 00:19:42,309 --> 00:19:46,929 black support lost bass with the Kami 403 00:19:44,499 --> 00:19:48,759 United States Senator George Grider all 404 00:19:46,929 --> 00:19:51,190 white candidates but who were not 405 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:53,919 supportive of the segregation line so we 406 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:55,809 through the democratic club and my 407 00:19:53,919 --> 00:19:57,560 involvement my brother bob we're just 408 00:19:55,809 --> 00:19:59,600 two tears case the work 409 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,940 with the leadership and we'd be out on 410 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,560 sound cause with microphones telling 411 00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:04,970 people to go vote and we'd be putting 412 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,000 out literature and we went to the 413 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:10,970 meetings and things and so by the time I 414 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:14,180 left Memphis finishing high school 59 I 415 00:20:10,970 --> 00:20:17,930 had already had some exposure to the 416 00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:22,940 politics of to the issue of race and so 417 00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:24,740 when I got to Louisiana suddenly was the 418 00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:27,560 largest all-black university in the 419 00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:30,890 country it had about 5,000 students it 420 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,480 still may be the largest predominantly 421 00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:35,750 black university in the country I think 422 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,590 it's got now I looked lately and really 423 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:40,280 chaplains 424 00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:42,530 I think nearly 15,000 students it's 425 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:47,960 really always been a large university 426 00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:49,760 and so and it has students that come 427 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,530 from different parts the country most of 428 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,900 the overwhelming number of employees had 429 00:20:51,530 --> 00:20:55,730 kids but it had probably more 430 00:20:53,900 --> 00:21:00,110 out-of-state students in most black 431 00:20:55,730 --> 00:21:02,330 colleges in the south and so with the 432 00:21:00,110 --> 00:21:07,430 influx influence of students from 433 00:21:02,330 --> 00:21:13,280 out-of-state particularly when in my 434 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:15,950 freshman year in the February 1960 when 435 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,810 the ten black students and white ten but 436 00:21:15,950 --> 00:21:20,480 whatever the number were at North 437 00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:23,060 Carolina A&T start at the initial 438 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,910 sit-ins by refusing to leave the 439 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:29,510 Woolworths counter in Greensboro and 440 00:21:25,910 --> 00:21:31,280 were arrested the news of that spread 441 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:34,210 across the country and particularly 442 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,920 crossed other black college campus 443 00:21:34,210 --> 00:21:39,830 practices and so within a month 444 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:42,170 students at southern took off went down 445 00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:44,240 to downtown Baton Rouge and saty and 446 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:47,690 where were you arrested also and so that 447 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,400 led to them being arrested and the 448 00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:52,160 university is black administration 449 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,020 expelling these kids because it was the 450 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,180 people thought is a black school it was 451 00:21:54,020 --> 00:21:58,970 a state school and they did this to 452 00:21:56,180 --> 00:22:01,040 protect their jobs and so we ended up 453 00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:01,960 fighting against the administrators of 454 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,110 the 455 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,970 University as a with the battle that 456 00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:10,000 initially it started out against the 457 00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:12,760 white segregationist and banners and in 458 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,100 time our low prevail when they they 459 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,539 expel these students we brought cata 460 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:23,169 classes for a while but the movement has 461 00:22:18,539 --> 00:22:25,809 movement often do did not sustain itself 462 00:22:23,169 --> 00:22:30,210 over the wall hall and so things went 463 00:22:25,809 --> 00:22:33,820 back to normal but I was a part at least 464 00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:36,039 in supporting and participating in the 465 00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:40,480 boycotts and the meetings and things 466 00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:41,919 during my freshman year and then I was 467 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,960 one of two representatives for the 468 00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:47,380 school to go to a national meeting of 469 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:51,039 students in Minnesota which was my first 470 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:52,659 exposure to kids outside of South black 471 00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:55,149 and white particularly white kids 472 00:22:52,659 --> 00:22:56,950 dealing with this whole subject of 473 00:22:55,149 --> 00:22:58,450 integration because that was the topic 474 00:22:56,950 --> 00:23:01,240 of the National Student Association 475 00:22:58,450 --> 00:23:05,649 convention that I attended in 1960 in 476 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:09,580 Minnesota and so that then brought in my 477 00:23:05,649 --> 00:23:11,200 perspective of the issued to other youth 478 00:23:09,580 --> 00:23:12,700 and what they were doing and how they 479 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,340 were perceiving things and becoming 480 00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:19,029 involved so when I came back to Southern 481 00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:21,070 for my sophomore year I was writing for 482 00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:23,830 the my first year as president of 483 00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:26,559 freshman class at the campus I was Tim 484 00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:30,220 where involved as a campus leader and 485 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:33,039 then my sophomore year I I wrote an 486 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:36,390 article for the campus newspaper into my 487 00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:38,919 junior year then in my junior year 488 00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:41,080 things started up again it was a young 489 00:23:38,919 --> 00:23:44,919 black woman from then it transferred to 490 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:48,940 southern from perhaps bellman I think 491 00:23:44,919 --> 00:23:50,529 and she was raised in Santa Mound there 492 00:23:48,940 --> 00:23:52,690 because things are too quiet and 493 00:23:50,529 --> 00:23:54,789 segregation was still the order of the 494 00:23:52,690 --> 00:23:57,970 day and was wondering why we weren't nor 495 00:23:54,789 --> 00:24:00,399 something now that now they were 496 00:23:57,970 --> 00:24:04,299 probably others who were agitating to 497 00:24:00,399 --> 00:24:08,799 because before I knew it there was a 498 00:24:04,299 --> 00:24:10,029 young student not of sudden but I think 499 00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:11,649 how it 500 00:24:10,029 --> 00:24:14,349 on Diamond who would come onto the 501 00:24:11,649 --> 00:24:16,389 campus and start reeling about our 502 00:24:14,349 --> 00:24:19,749 complacency and urging students to get 503 00:24:16,389 --> 00:24:22,509 involved and and then the next thing I 504 00:24:19,749 --> 00:24:25,299 know there is another city in downtown 505 00:24:22,509 --> 00:24:27,039 Baton Rouge and then these kids were 506 00:24:25,299 --> 00:24:29,379 arrested and things were going to repeat 507 00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:31,989 itself and the Congress of racial 508 00:24:29,379 --> 00:24:34,539 equality core which was been one of the 509 00:24:31,989 --> 00:24:37,719 major black civil rights organizations 510 00:24:34,539 --> 00:24:39,639 unlike the Cornell the Roy yes runs 511 00:24:37,719 --> 00:24:42,039 that's kind of Republican black 512 00:24:39,639 --> 00:24:44,109 Republican conservative group but this 513 00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:47,589 one this core was not the same 514 00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:49,269 organization it was run by Jim Palmer a 515 00:24:47,589 --> 00:24:51,789 major national black leader are 516 00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:54,580 incredible black leader out of New York 517 00:24:51,789 --> 00:24:56,950 and they were supporting this protest 518 00:24:54,580 --> 00:25:01,239 that unfolded on the southern campus in 519 00:24:56,950 --> 00:25:03,429 1962 in my junior year and again the 520 00:25:01,239 --> 00:25:06,219 president 12 o'clock expelled the 521 00:25:03,429 --> 00:25:09,339 students and then we started work on 522 00:25:06,219 --> 00:25:13,029 well we watch downtown and we were tear 523 00:25:09,339 --> 00:25:14,979 gassed and and sub students were 524 00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:17,950 arrested and they used police dogs and 525 00:25:14,979 --> 00:25:20,019 so we went back and and marched to the 526 00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:22,059 president of the university house to 527 00:25:20,019 --> 00:25:23,679 demand that he not expel these students 528 00:25:22,059 --> 00:25:27,070 which he promised not to do and then he 529 00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:29,559 turned around expel them and so as it 530 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:32,379 happened before we ended up protesting 531 00:25:29,559 --> 00:25:34,239 against administration and the fight 532 00:25:32,379 --> 00:25:36,460 which had started out focused on white 533 00:25:34,239 --> 00:25:39,519 people downtown and it have been shifted 534 00:25:36,460 --> 00:25:42,399 to black people on campus and solicited 535 00:25:39,519 --> 00:25:45,849 essen fight that went on dr. Clarke 536 00:25:42,399 --> 00:25:47,320 closed the university and expelled me 537 00:25:45,849 --> 00:25:50,789 and several of the student leaders of 538 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,989 the protest and when he reopened the 539 00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:54,999 scores of students were not readmitted 540 00:25:52,989 --> 00:25:57,519 to the University all of the leaders of 541 00:25:54,999 --> 00:26:00,849 the movement work spelled or denied 542 00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:02,409 readmission and so that was in the 543 00:26:00,849 --> 00:26:06,339 middle of my junior year at the 544 00:26:02,409 --> 00:26:10,659 University and we try to remain around 545 00:26:06,339 --> 00:26:15,220 Baton Rouge to do some organizing but 546 00:26:10,659 --> 00:26:19,109 time that with movements like that you 547 00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:23,049 reach you hit suddenly he reach your 548 00:26:19,109 --> 00:26:26,889 major point of attention and impact and 549 00:26:23,049 --> 00:26:29,229 then it subsides and so as things 550 00:26:26,889 --> 00:26:33,119 beginning to subside I had to look and 551 00:26:29,229 --> 00:26:35,590 what I was going to do educationally and 552 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,090 the group of students and masters was 553 00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:39,009 arrange money to provide a scholarship 554 00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:41,440 to some kid who had been killed kicked 555 00:26:39,009 --> 00:26:43,809 out of school in the south and they 556 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,940 offered it to a friend of mine who had 557 00:26:43,809 --> 00:26:48,940 been kicked out of Jackson State for the 558 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:51,220 same reasons he was the president of the 559 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:54,639 body there Walter Williams was now judge 560 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:56,830 in Chicago and so he recommended they 561 00:26:54,639 --> 00:27:00,309 contact me which they did from Clark 562 00:26:56,830 --> 00:27:02,470 University Worcester and so they that 563 00:27:00,309 --> 00:27:04,210 car washes and bake sales in the Mike 564 00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:08,669 and so they offered me a scholarship to 565 00:27:04,210 --> 00:27:11,879 finish school up there and so I left the 566 00:27:08,669 --> 00:27:14,019 Massachusetts in the fall of 62 and 567 00:27:11,879 --> 00:27:16,419 spent the next two years of my 568 00:27:14,019 --> 00:27:18,849 undergraduate warfare where I where 569 00:27:16,419 --> 00:27:21,519 finished and crawling Worcester I had to 570 00:27:18,849 --> 00:27:23,320 organize students it was a predominantly 571 00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,409 white campus and we had a thousand 572 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:33,389 students and there were two blacks me in 573 00:27:26,409 --> 00:27:33,389 one budhwa young lady from Detroit and 574 00:27:33,809 --> 00:27:38,349 that I already has a civil rights group 575 00:27:36,009 --> 00:27:40,299 on the campus by calling in some blacks 576 00:27:38,349 --> 00:27:42,789 on the neighborhood it was still small 577 00:27:40,299 --> 00:27:44,859 black community 3,000 out of 200,000 578 00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:47,109 people in Worcester but there was racial 579 00:27:44,859 --> 00:27:49,269 discrimination and the jobs there we 580 00:27:47,109 --> 00:27:51,669 protested against it in a plan in a 581 00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:54,549 department store and we brought in 582 00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:56,289 speakers like Malcolm X and Norman 583 00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:58,599 Thomas the great socialist leader and 584 00:27:56,289 --> 00:28:00,369 James Merritt who had just been through 585 00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,799 the struggle to integrate University of 586 00:28:00,369 --> 00:28:05,679 Mississippi so that's what I did through 587 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:12,279 the remainder of my undergraduate work 588 00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:14,739 which ended in summer of 64 Wow you're 589 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:17,200 so involved and so thereafter what 590 00:28:14,739 --> 00:28:19,419 weather who encouraged you to kind of 591 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,679 take a stand for what you believe in how 592 00:28:19,419 --> 00:28:22,679 did you feel that was important 593 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:35,330 well to me the issue of involvement and 594 00:28:32,030 --> 00:28:41,230 taking a stand arises from my own sense 595 00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:44,840 of self-worth and I just 596 00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:47,120 I'm proud free black man and I don't 597 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:56,020 think that anybody's got a right to 598 00:28:47,120 --> 00:29:00,890 treat me any different and so when I 599 00:28:56,020 --> 00:29:03,980 when I grew up segregation was the order 600 00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:06,020 of the day and I was still treated 601 00:29:03,980 --> 00:29:09,020 somewhat with respect even though it was 602 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:12,530 in a segregated south and in those cases 603 00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:14,480 where I was not I rebelled I was working 604 00:29:12,530 --> 00:29:17,510 at John yes Hospital while I was in high 605 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:23,030 school and a white nurse and supervisor 606 00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:25,130 said something rude to me and I said 607 00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:28,220 something back it wasn't rude but it was 608 00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:29,750 direct her and that she was wrong and 609 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:35,030 saying what she had said and they fired 610 00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:37,280 me and then I protested by going to the 611 00:29:35,030 --> 00:29:38,900 Board of Directors in the hospital but 612 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,600 they refused you me but I said outside 613 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:43,700 of their movie 614 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:47,810 my daddy was fired once by the railroad 615 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:51,680 and I called that and spoke to the 616 00:29:47,810 --> 00:30:00,880 president of railroad in Chicago about 617 00:29:51,680 --> 00:30:05,530 that that was a nice group so to be no I 618 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:09,500 guess I've always felt that that I'm as 619 00:30:05,530 --> 00:30:13,400 good a bad as the best or the worst of 620 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:15,170 this country black on white and if I 621 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,270 don't get treated with the same degree 622 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:19,730 of respect and opportunity that the 623 00:30:17,270 --> 00:30:23,360 white people get treated something wrong 624 00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:28,310 and why people like I correct it I have 625 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,389 to correct it and so I have the tools by 626 00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:33,729 the Lord having 627 00:30:29,389 --> 00:30:38,059 intelligence and the health and division 628 00:30:33,729 --> 00:30:41,779 and the spirit to fight back and I find 629 00:30:38,059 --> 00:30:44,989 that that when you fight back people 630 00:30:41,779 --> 00:30:47,149 respect you and they back off they don't 631 00:30:44,989 --> 00:30:50,239 that doesn't mean they vigilic just 632 00:30:47,149 --> 00:30:52,549 means that thing that you you have to 633 00:30:50,239 --> 00:30:54,469 demand respect to get respect it just 634 00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:57,889 doesn't come automatically particularly 635 00:30:54,469 --> 00:31:01,459 for black person well I know I'm glad 636 00:30:57,889 --> 00:31:03,349 bit director provides us many of the 637 00:31:01,459 --> 00:31:05,419 opportunities that we have today but I 638 00:31:03,349 --> 00:31:08,529 wasn't fighting for you how vitally huh 639 00:31:05,419 --> 00:31:10,399 I have that that's amazing 640 00:31:08,529 --> 00:31:12,499 so could you talk a little bit more 641 00:31:10,399 --> 00:31:16,700 about what he did after your 642 00:31:12,499 --> 00:31:21,019 undergraduate work well I left Clark and 643 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:22,789 Wooster I I knew in order to go to law 644 00:31:21,019 --> 00:31:25,789 school I hadn't been planning that all 645 00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:28,579 along but because when I was in Memphis 646 00:31:25,789 --> 00:31:30,919 as a teenager working with the 647 00:31:28,579 --> 00:31:35,629 Democratic Club and NACP and in the 648 00:31:30,919 --> 00:31:37,609 political sphere some of the main reason 649 00:31:35,629 --> 00:31:40,879 that effort were black lawyers 650 00:31:37,609 --> 00:31:43,249 particularly to Russell Sherman and aw 651 00:31:40,879 --> 00:31:45,409 Willis and in fact we would meet at 652 00:31:43,249 --> 00:31:48,619 their law office the Democratic Club 653 00:31:45,409 --> 00:31:52,639 would and then the n-double-a-cp was 654 00:31:48,619 --> 00:31:54,559 involved but I straw and they invent 655 00:31:52,639 --> 00:31:56,299 hooks was practicing law but he was a 656 00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:59,959 Republican and was not really very much 657 00:31:56,299 --> 00:32:01,999 involved in civil rights strategies at 658 00:31:59,959 --> 00:32:06,409 the end of ACP and Russell of Sherman 659 00:32:01,999 --> 00:32:08,619 and AW were pursuing that attorney sa 660 00:32:06,409 --> 00:32:11,929 Wilden was another black boy at the time 661 00:32:08,619 --> 00:32:14,209 attached HT Lockett was then a black 662 00:32:11,929 --> 00:32:17,989 lawyer here which one of the black 663 00:32:14,209 --> 00:32:19,789 lawyers that that attempted to be 664 00:32:17,989 --> 00:32:22,759 involved and responsive to the black 665 00:32:19,789 --> 00:32:26,269 community so I saw as a young person 666 00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:31,209 that black lawyers had both the the 667 00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:33,950 tools by their profession and the talent 668 00:32:31,209 --> 00:32:35,450 and the opportunity to help make an 669 00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:36,430 important difference in the way things 670 00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:39,760 are going 671 00:32:36,430 --> 00:32:42,010 and it gave you independence and so I 672 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,430 applied for one was accepted into law 673 00:32:42,010 --> 00:32:47,559 school when I came out a clock I spent 674 00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:50,320 my first year at Boston University Law 675 00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:52,300 School and then I transferred after my 676 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,270 first year would be you to Yale where I 677 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:59,440 spent the next two years and I got my 678 00:32:54,270 --> 00:33:03,070 law degree there in 1967 now in those 679 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:06,100 three years that I was in law school the 680 00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:08,140 first year when I was at Washington 681 00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:11,679 University I organized the civil rights 682 00:33:08,140 --> 00:33:14,980 a group of law students and the job that 683 00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:16,960 we were doing was recruiting other law 684 00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:18,870 students who would do research projects 685 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,950 for civil rights lawyers in the South 686 00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:25,179 that desegregation cases or they would 687 00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:27,700 defendant people who had been arrested 688 00:33:25,179 --> 00:33:29,620 in demonstrations and they needed to 689 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:33,309 help we do the research at our law 690 00:33:29,620 --> 00:33:36,100 school and send it back to them at no 691 00:33:33,309 --> 00:33:39,250 cost and that helped to provide 692 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:41,380 additional resources to a handful of 693 00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:44,830 lawyers across the South who were doing 694 00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:46,750 civil rights work and then and so I 695 00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:49,000 organized this chapter of the law 696 00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:50,530 students civil rights Research Council 697 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,160 which was headquartered in New York yet 698 00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:56,350 Boston and then i recruited some law 699 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:01,480 students to go south the following 700 00:33:56,350 --> 00:34:05,590 summer of 65 to work in the south do it 701 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,450 to the right work and and I instead of 702 00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:11,950 working for this week's roster this 703 00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:15,550 group I was hired by the double-a-c-p 704 00:34:11,950 --> 00:34:17,080 Legal Defense Fund in New York which was 705 00:34:15,550 --> 00:34:18,300 a separate organization from 706 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,560 n-double-a-cp 707 00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:22,560 but that was the organization that 708 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,830 Thurgood Marshall Constance Baker motley 709 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:28,629 Jack greenberg and others and run that 710 00:34:26,830 --> 00:34:30,790 had been involved in the major civil 711 00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:33,240 rights cases from Brown versus Board of 712 00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:36,580 Education on through many of the other 713 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:39,669 pioneering cases and so legal depends 714 00:34:36,580 --> 00:34:41,980 upon which I was there in the art the 715 00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:43,350 summer of 65 when I was finishing my 716 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:47,230 first year 717 00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:49,840 mr. Burke was the first year that Title 718 00:34:47,230 --> 00:34:53,409 7 people have grown after his Commission 719 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:56,320 Act became effective and so that was the 720 00:34:53,409 --> 00:34:59,530 beginning and that summer were black 721 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,350 employees could foul job discrimination 722 00:34:59,530 --> 00:35:05,080 complaints against their employers and 723 00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:08,050 that would then go to the federal agency 724 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,900 for investigation and action and so the 725 00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:12,400 legal defense line 726 00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:14,920 decided that it would take one life lost 727 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,570 it whether they'd have to black but 728 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:20,230 that's what most of us were that they 729 00:35:16,570 --> 00:35:22,990 hired and someone to each state and so I 730 00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:24,820 was sent to Nick to Louisiana and I was 731 00:35:22,990 --> 00:35:29,520 in New Orleans in fact I worked out of 732 00:35:24,820 --> 00:35:32,680 the law office of Kurdish Morial and 733 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,140 Dutch Morial as they called him but he 734 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,440 was one of the black lawyers in the New 735 00:35:35,140 --> 00:35:41,430 Orleans who was in practice with another 736 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:45,100 pioneering black lawyer in New Orleans 737 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:47,020 ap2 Rowe who was sort of the Dean of 738 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:50,230 black lawyers in New Orleans and they 739 00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:52,420 were on Claiborne Avenue I think it was 740 00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:54,100 at the st. Peter Claver builded which is 741 00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:57,040 a sort of a historic building there in 742 00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:58,870 black New Orleans and so motivated me 743 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,930 free office space to work out of his 744 00:35:58,870 --> 00:36:04,600 office that summer Morial later was 745 00:36:01,930 --> 00:36:07,390 elected mayor of New Orleans first black 746 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,180 mayor of New Orleans and his son is now 747 00:36:07,390 --> 00:36:13,960 the head of the National Urban League 748 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:16,810 but that summer my job was to travel 749 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,790 around the state of Louisiana and I put 750 00:36:16,810 --> 00:36:21,340 out early kids and get stories in black 751 00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:23,320 newspapers to met black workers know 752 00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:25,960 that I was there and if they had issues 753 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,690 of job discrimination to contact me and 754 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,270 then I'd go to them or arrange to meet 755 00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:33,550 them and I would prepare the complaints 756 00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:35,320 for them and we would file them that 757 00:36:33,550 --> 00:36:37,540 send them back to the New York office 758 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,920 and they would file them with the heels 759 00:36:37,540 --> 00:36:41,440 Lee had traveled up to 760 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,570 Bogalusa Louisiana and organized a 761 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,420 number of workers there to file a major 762 00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:49,860 complaint against crown Zellerbach Paper 763 00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:53,250 Company which has a big paper operation 764 00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:56,910 and so that was what I was doing after I 765 00:36:53,250 --> 00:36:59,790 finished my first year bu and so when I 766 00:36:56,910 --> 00:37:02,490 got accepted to transfer to Yale Law 767 00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:06,510 School and so when I got to Yale I 768 00:37:02,490 --> 00:37:08,850 continued to we already had a champion 769 00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:10,470 of my that same law student group at 770 00:37:08,850 --> 00:37:13,050 Yale and so I worked with that 771 00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:17,310 and then I think that when I got to my 772 00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:20,190 next summer that I came actually to the 773 00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:22,230 south and I supervised about a hundred 774 00:37:20,190 --> 00:37:24,120 law students there was spread across the 775 00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:26,210 south working with civil rights lawyers 776 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:30,150 and so I traveled from Florida to 777 00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:32,010 Mississippi to Georgia to Alabama with 778 00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:34,230 these to see how these students were 779 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:36,540 doing and see if there was anything that 780 00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:37,800 I needed to do to help them out in these 781 00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:41,870 different little seeds that they were 782 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,040 located and then that summer of 66 and 783 00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:48,450 then of course the next summer I 784 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:49,980 graduated in 67 and I was selected to be 785 00:37:48,450 --> 00:37:52,470 the national director of this 786 00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:54,900 organization and so I moved to New York 787 00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:57,060 I finished law school and worked a year 788 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:59,460 there there's the head of the 789 00:37:57,060 --> 00:38:01,770 organization and we had about four 790 00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:04,320 chapters at lost was 30 to 40 chapters 791 00:38:01,770 --> 00:38:08,850 around the country and that my job was 792 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:10,830 to keep the chapters organized to get 793 00:38:08,850 --> 00:38:12,660 more chapters involved to help recruit 794 00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:14,600 these students and we would have for the 795 00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:17,220 summertime and we paid the students 796 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,320 through money that it was my job to 797 00:38:17,220 --> 00:38:20,880 raise from private foundations in New 798 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,660 York another year that I was the 799 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,710 director was responsible for that and so 800 00:38:23,660 --> 00:38:28,560 that was the year dr. King was 801 00:38:25,710 --> 00:38:33,660 assassinated the year of 1968 because I 802 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:37,070 started my job in 67 and and my brother 803 00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:39,990 was then practicing law here one of the 804 00:38:37,070 --> 00:38:42,480 in the only integrated law firm in 805 00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:47,130 Memphis which was which included Willis 806 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:49,080 and Sugarman at that time and so I got a 807 00:38:47,130 --> 00:38:51,570 foundation a couple foundations in New 808 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,310 York to give me the funds to hire 809 00:38:51,570 --> 00:38:55,590 especially 810 00:38:53,310 --> 00:38:58,020 ten law students and I said them even 811 00:38:55,590 --> 00:38:59,910 though it was in summer but I said them 812 00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:02,130 to recruited and sent them to Memphis to 813 00:38:59,910 --> 00:39:04,650 work with lawyers they were helping them 814 00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:06,600 sanitation strike and of course that's 815 00:39:04,650 --> 00:39:10,110 when dr. King was shot in fact the first 816 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,640 suspect that was picked up after the 817 00:39:10,110 --> 00:39:13,200 assassination was one of those ten 818 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,150 students that I had in Memphis course 819 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,000 they released him but these are mostly 820 00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:19,950 like costumes and he was in the wrong 821 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:26,460 place at the wrong time and so he get 822 00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:28,710 picked up oh so you bet your brother was 823 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:30,330 working here in this is one mine at the 824 00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:37,380 king of assassination when did you come 825 00:39:30,330 --> 00:39:39,360 back to Memphis and 1974 let me go in 826 00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:43,170 the summer 34 and what did you do before 827 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:45,960 then well the job I had in New York as a 828 00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:48,740 director of we called it miss wick 829 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,630 Wellington wife Ruth had this sort of 830 00:39:48,740 --> 00:39:53,580 acronyms I guess where you sure the name 831 00:39:51,630 --> 00:39:55,860 lost in civil rights Research Council 832 00:39:53,580 --> 00:39:58,860 instead we called in this quick fact 833 00:39:55,860 --> 00:40:01,260 that as a sidelight I'd know it was so 834 00:39:58,860 --> 00:40:03,510 the first job that Marion Adelman had 835 00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:05,310 not marinade him and we provided law 836 00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:07,710 students to Marion Adelman who was then 837 00:40:05,310 --> 00:40:09,870 married and right down in Jackson 838 00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:13,170 Mississippi run an N double ACP office 839 00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:14,640 down there legal office who now runs 840 00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:16,560 children's defense alone but I had 841 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,270 intended to say Hillary Clinton's of 842 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,670 Devin's the first job that she have and 843 00:40:18,270 --> 00:40:22,530 she came out of Yale was working for 844 00:40:20,670 --> 00:40:25,830 this law student group which had 845 00:40:22,530 --> 00:40:28,110 assigned her to work with Marion Adelman 846 00:40:25,830 --> 00:40:32,100 at the Children's Defense Fund which was 847 00:40:28,110 --> 00:40:33,990 in the first job but when I finished the 848 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,420 one year assignment on that New York job 849 00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:38,760 I had that took a job in San Francisco 850 00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:41,220 to work with the Legal Services offices 851 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:44,550 there and I was in their central office 852 00:40:41,220 --> 00:40:49,480 during a test case litigation sort of 853 00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:53,680 class action type cases against the 854 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:57,100 the Kwajalein businesspeople who would 855 00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:00,430 take an advantage of consumers and I did 856 00:40:57,100 --> 00:41:02,380 that for a couple of years and I got 857 00:41:00,430 --> 00:41:04,480 into politics I was living in the Bayer 858 00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:05,920 and Berkeley and supposed to I was 859 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,780 working in San Francisco but living in 860 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,740 Burke actually had invited Jason to 861 00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:14,410 Berkeley and in 71 862 00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:16,600 I moved at the beginning of 71 into 863 00:41:14,410 --> 00:41:19,960 Berkeley I ran for the City Council 864 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:24,609 there and I was elected to the Berkeley 865 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:29,440 Council when in April of 1971 as a part 866 00:41:24,609 --> 00:41:31,030 of what was called a radical takeover 867 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,520 the Berkeley City government and whether 868 00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:36,220 it wasn't a takeover but I ran on a 869 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,500 ticket with three other candidates we 870 00:41:36,220 --> 00:41:41,080 had a slate of four candidates to black 871 00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:43,000 to white and we were supported by the 872 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:46,480 political left and by the black 873 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:49,270 activists and so they call it radical 874 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:54,970 because we were supported by students 875 00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:57,430 hippies Panthers liberals and we won 876 00:41:54,970 --> 00:42:01,930 three or four seats that were up to be 877 00:41:57,430 --> 00:42:04,690 filled and so so from 71 when I was 878 00:42:01,930 --> 00:42:07,210 elected to 73 I was active as a member 879 00:42:04,690 --> 00:42:09,010 of the Berkeley City Council and I was 880 00:42:07,210 --> 00:42:11,470 fighting for job opportunities with 881 00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:13,210 blacks because when I took office even 882 00:42:11,470 --> 00:42:16,540 though people think of Berkeley it's 883 00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:20,470 been very liberal it was only twenty 884 00:42:16,540 --> 00:42:23,859 percent black and and for example in the 885 00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:25,750 city manager's office 13 employees were 886 00:42:23,859 --> 00:42:28,060 all white in the garbage department 887 00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:30,369 almost all of the work is 95 percent 888 00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:33,550 plus were black and police department 889 00:42:30,369 --> 00:42:37,030 five ninety five seven white so I had to 890 00:42:33,550 --> 00:42:39,820 fight along with the singing one of the 891 00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:41,980 other council members funded by an IRS 892 00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:44,500 summons a black lawyer from had moved 893 00:42:41,980 --> 00:42:46,780 out there from these girls as well in 894 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:48,310 fact I had known him from his 895 00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:50,619 organization miss quick he was at 896 00:42:48,310 --> 00:42:53,740 Harvard Law School and who's involved in 897 00:42:50,619 --> 00:42:55,099 their chapter anyway yeah I got elect at 898 00:42:53,740 --> 00:42:57,349 the same time and 899 00:42:55,099 --> 00:42:59,869 he helped and I worked together and 900 00:42:57,349 --> 00:43:01,519 fought for a parent of action there was 901 00:42:59,869 --> 00:43:05,720 a white woman who was elected with us 902 00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:08,390 and she helped to I was ousted in a 903 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:10,339 special election from the council the 904 00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:15,529 Conservatives that said initially that 905 00:43:10,339 --> 00:43:20,390 they were going to may have run against 906 00:43:15,529 --> 00:43:22,880 us and when we were elected but in order 907 00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:24,319 to win you only had to be the highest 908 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,539 vote getter so there were thirty degree 909 00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:29,749 candidates and so when we had four 910 00:43:26,539 --> 00:43:32,569 people and we could all organize with 911 00:43:29,749 --> 00:43:34,309 votes for those fool with and the 912 00:43:32,569 --> 00:43:36,349 conservative votes were split among all 913 00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:38,089 those other candidates then we came in 914 00:43:36,349 --> 00:43:39,680 with the second third and fourth highest 915 00:43:38,089 --> 00:43:41,059 votes even though the Conservatives had 916 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,460 the highest because there was one 917 00:43:41,059 --> 00:43:45,019 candidate that they didn't split on so 918 00:43:43,460 --> 00:43:47,569 they really did have majority but 919 00:43:45,019 --> 00:43:49,069 because of the split they lost me and so 920 00:43:47,569 --> 00:43:51,440 they vowed that they were going to ask 921 00:43:49,069 --> 00:43:54,410 three of us in a special recall election 922 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:57,229 but after the period of two years passed 923 00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:58,849 they decided that strategically they'd 924 00:43:57,229 --> 00:44:00,529 focus on the one they thought was the 925 00:43:58,849 --> 00:44:03,619 biggest troublemaker in that was way and 926 00:44:00,529 --> 00:44:05,450 so they started a petition campaign to 927 00:44:03,619 --> 00:44:09,140 remove me from the mercury Council they 928 00:44:05,450 --> 00:44:11,390 said that I introduced race into the 929 00:44:09,140 --> 00:44:13,130 politics of the city that I disparage 930 00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:16,430 the image of established black leaders 931 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:18,499 and I did call one man Uncle Tom and I 932 00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:21,650 did call the black man the city's chief 933 00:44:18,499 --> 00:44:24,380 Pig at one point but that was really us 934 00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:28,789 when a slip of the tongue but but I had 935 00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:32,059 to sort of capsule a very angry feeling 936 00:44:28,789 --> 00:44:34,219 that I had because he sold us out I mean 937 00:44:32,059 --> 00:44:36,859 not only as long as I in the sense of 938 00:44:34,219 --> 00:44:40,219 any money but he had broken ranks with 939 00:44:36,859 --> 00:44:42,229 us to put a conservative into a vacancy 940 00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:43,969 on the council that then completely 941 00:44:42,229 --> 00:44:46,670 shifted the political balance of the 942 00:44:43,969 --> 00:44:49,849 council and I was and he was moving the 943 00:44:46,670 --> 00:44:52,819 meeting rapidly and and inside I used 944 00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:54,829 that term and not with any subsequent 945 00:44:52,819 --> 00:44:58,069 apology even to this day but it was 946 00:44:54,829 --> 00:44:59,719 perhaps in politic in fact that was one 947 00:44:58,069 --> 00:45:02,029 of the things that the Conservatives 948 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,339 richen din their literature against me 949 00:45:02,029 --> 00:45:05,220 was that call the master is chief Pig of 950 00:45:04,339 --> 00:45:06,420 course at that time 951 00:45:05,220 --> 00:45:09,750 the Panthers were using a workday 952 00:45:06,420 --> 00:45:14,190 talking about people who racist I guess 953 00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:16,680 but but but anyway and then as I said 954 00:45:14,190 --> 00:45:19,830 well mine sweetie was a council member 955 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:22,290 black who was a long time the only black 956 00:45:19,830 --> 00:45:24,060 on the Burford council very conservative 957 00:45:22,290 --> 00:45:25,710 in fact when I was fighting preparing to 958 00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:26,670 action he looked at me at the council 959 00:45:25,710 --> 00:45:29,220 tables there would that be 960 00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:31,619 discrimination at white people and he 961 00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:33,780 never did profile very much though he 962 00:45:31,619 --> 00:45:38,430 was the work Connally what Clarence 963 00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:40,260 Thomas at that time and I probably did 964 00:45:38,430 --> 00:45:42,300 say at some point that he was knocked on 965 00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:45,420 oval normal I would not use those kind 966 00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:47,430 of statements in public I would perhaps 967 00:45:45,420 --> 00:45:49,470 say that in our private session out 968 00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:51,660 executive sessions for that closed doors 969 00:45:49,470 --> 00:45:53,340 but there was one of charge of that 970 00:45:51,660 --> 00:46:01,050 disparage the image of established black 971 00:45:53,340 --> 00:46:02,550 leaders that I filibusters the council 972 00:46:01,050 --> 00:46:05,070 meetings and close the meetings to break 973 00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:07,200 down and to disarray and that's true 974 00:46:05,070 --> 00:46:09,869 because we did not have enough votes 975 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:12,300 always to stop with this as usual 976 00:46:09,869 --> 00:46:13,980 sometimes I did have to filibuster to 977 00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:15,690 keep the council from going and they 978 00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:18,839 would actually turn the microphone off 979 00:46:15,690 --> 00:46:20,970 and I just had to keep talking with no 980 00:46:18,839 --> 00:46:23,099 microphone and then the mean sometimes 981 00:46:20,970 --> 00:46:24,960 would just break up and confusion but 982 00:46:23,099 --> 00:46:26,820 that would keep them from voting which 983 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,820 was what I was intending to do was to 984 00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:32,760 tie things up until we could we just and 985 00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:34,589 get some things passed which we did we 986 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,339 passed an affirmative action program we 987 00:46:34,589 --> 00:46:41,369 forced the whites of the manager to 988 00:46:38,339 --> 00:46:43,920 resign we replaced him in time with a 989 00:46:41,369 --> 00:46:47,130 black city manager we got a first police 990 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:49,470 take to resign no report got black City 991 00:46:47,130 --> 00:46:53,760 Attorney for the first time but those 992 00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:55,830 things came by very confrontational yet 993 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,020 deliberate politics that I was engaged 994 00:46:55,830 --> 00:46:59,880 in but but at the same time they were 995 00:46:58,020 --> 00:47:02,400 targeting me because of that and I knew 996 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,410 that but I had to make a choice between 997 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,450 whether I wanted to be safe and keep my 998 00:47:04,410 --> 00:47:08,190 position or what I wanted to export the 999 00:47:06,450 --> 00:47:09,900 position that I had and make the 1000 00:47:08,190 --> 00:47:12,300 progress that I could 1001 00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:14,250 there and so we've got the necessary 1002 00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:15,990 signatures the Conservatives are very 1003 00:47:14,250 --> 00:47:18,540 well financed they had business people 1004 00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:20,040 that were supporting they got twenty 1005 00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:22,560 five percent of people who voted in the 1006 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,690 election to sign a petition but they had 1007 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,150 a majority vote all along and they just 1008 00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:29,670 won only because the votes were so split 1009 00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:32,850 up so once they put your name on the 1010 00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:34,380 ballot in a recall election you're 1011 00:47:32,850 --> 00:47:37,140 pre-med you're pretty much done for 1012 00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:39,060 because in a recall you had to get 1013 00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:41,040 majority to survive which we had never 1014 00:47:39,060 --> 00:47:46,110 had and they do that because they passed 1015 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:49,710 after I election a ballot measure called 1016 00:47:46,110 --> 00:47:51,390 measure him which provided that you had 1017 00:47:49,710 --> 00:47:54,600 to have majority from that point forward 1018 00:47:51,390 --> 00:47:57,180 to render City Council so once they got 1019 00:47:54,600 --> 00:48:00,290 the recall ish on the ballot then Asia 1020 00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:06,990 is shall be I may be able to be recall 1021 00:48:00,290 --> 00:48:11,850 yes or no and and so I had to have a 1022 00:48:06,990 --> 00:48:14,250 majority to to survive well in addition 1023 00:48:11,850 --> 00:48:17,430 to that vote the next question on the 1024 00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:19,470 ballot was if the army buildings recall 1025 00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:22,260 which of the following candidates do you 1026 00:48:19,470 --> 00:48:24,270 want to inflation and so not only did I 1027 00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:27,210 have to win a majority but I had five 1028 00:48:24,270 --> 00:48:29,100 people who were running to replace me so 1029 00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:31,740 even though some of them said we're not 1030 00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:33,120 against him but if he loses we want to 1031 00:48:31,740 --> 00:48:36,360 make sure that we've got a good person 1032 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,100 in the seat well you can imagine just as 1033 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,970 a matter of practical politics if you've 1034 00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:44,730 got five or six people that are running 1035 00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:46,500 to take my seat if I'm boots you can 1036 00:48:44,730 --> 00:48:48,450 imagine how their supporters are going 1037 00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:51,180 to vote on the question of what items or 1038 00:48:48,450 --> 00:48:53,160 not so not only am i running against a 1039 00:48:51,180 --> 00:48:55,260 stacked brick in terms of not having 1040 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,460 majority to give it so now I've got all 1041 00:48:55,260 --> 00:48:59,210 these people who are writing to 1042 00:48:56,460 --> 00:49:02,970 replacement so in the end they had I 1043 00:48:59,210 --> 00:49:04,380 think we had eleven thousand votes May 1044 00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:06,780 at eighteen thousand it was in the 1045 00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:08,640 summertime to when the university was 1046 00:49:06,780 --> 00:49:11,640 not in session in fact as a result of 1047 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,400 that Berkeley outlawed special elections 1048 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,200 in the summer falls in that 1049 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,390 the organ if that University's been 1050 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,540 there wouldn't been enough of a numbers 1051 00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:22,130 difference with the campus community to 1052 00:49:19,540 --> 00:49:25,970 overcome that solid conservative vote so 1053 00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:31,700 I lost my seat in in the special 1054 00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:34,280 election in 73 and so at that I looked 1055 00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:36,980 at my hand I felt that I accomplished 1056 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:41,810 what I as much as I could and under the 1057 00:49:36,980 --> 00:49:43,610 circumstances there I could have stayed 1058 00:49:41,810 --> 00:49:44,840 out there in fact at one point in time I 1059 00:49:43,610 --> 00:49:48,620 thought of staying out there practicing 1060 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:50,840 law in Oakland but I also have an offer 1061 00:49:48,620 --> 00:49:54,290 to come back to Memphis to join the firm 1062 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:56,330 where my brother was and I had gotten to 1063 00:49:54,290 --> 00:49:59,680 know here Newton and Bobby Seale who 1064 00:49:56,330 --> 00:50:02,990 were active with the panties at the time 1065 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:06,050 my friend and I my fellow council member 1066 00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:08,750 our Simmons and I had gone to hear his 1067 00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:10,700 penthouse two or three times inside and 1068 00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:13,820 talk to them about political matters and 1069 00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:23,210 here we murder changed he sort of became 1070 00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:24,740 he was he was wedded to people well I 1071 00:50:23,210 --> 00:50:26,870 mean on the one hand he was very 1072 00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:29,780 charming nice guy to sit down and talk 1073 00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:32,090 with and claim cherries regal in his 1074 00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:35,120 penthouse and on the other hand he could 1075 00:50:32,090 --> 00:50:37,580 become very threatening and and 1076 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,470 potentially violent so he had threatened 1077 00:50:37,580 --> 00:50:42,140 me and when I had visited him in every 1078 00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:44,600 with him in his penthouse at one time he 1079 00:50:42,140 --> 00:50:47,870 wanted me to give him some money which I 1080 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,820 told him I didn't have $20,000 he danced 1081 00:50:47,870 --> 00:50:52,820 before because there was this view that 1082 00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:55,550 I had a lot of money because the job as 1083 00:50:52,820 --> 00:51:01,010 a city councilman only paid $300 a month 1084 00:50:55,550 --> 00:51:06,440 and I was spending about $1,500 for 1085 00:51:01,010 --> 00:51:10,850 staff at one time of about ten or twelve 1086 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:13,550 people some of whom were students and 1087 00:51:10,850 --> 00:51:18,200 some of whom were assigned to me from 1088 00:51:13,550 --> 00:51:22,520 other agencies but but the money into 1089 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,800 football I had this source of funds a 1090 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,240 lot of money 1091 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,220 and I didn't know where it was coming 1092 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,870 from and I did not reveal where it was 1093 00:51:27,220 --> 00:51:30,580 coming from because it was coming from 1094 00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:33,820 some friends of mine who were wealth in 1095 00:51:30,580 --> 00:51:36,160 didn't welcome the names in public but 1096 00:51:33,820 --> 00:51:38,410 anyway so I guess part of the thicker 1097 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,450 than I was well he read a surface of 1098 00:51:38,410 --> 00:51:42,220 mine I told him that one and he also 1099 00:51:40,450 --> 00:51:43,330 wanted me to join the panthers not 1100 00:51:42,220 --> 00:51:45,130 talking about what happened to that 1101 00:51:43,330 --> 00:51:48,280 although I was supportive of what the 1102 00:51:45,130 --> 00:51:52,240 Panthers were doing and so here he again 1103 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:55,240 is kind of guide if he doesn't if you 1104 00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:57,790 don't do what he wants you to prove he 1105 00:51:55,240 --> 00:52:02,110 can very well turn very very violent 1106 00:51:57,790 --> 00:52:05,320 towards you and so he threatened me a 1107 00:52:02,110 --> 00:52:09,100 couple of times once causing me to have 1108 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,810 to enlist the Berkeley Police for 1109 00:52:09,100 --> 00:52:12,580 around-the-clock protection for a couple 1110 00:52:10,810 --> 00:52:17,530 of days until I determined that there 1111 00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:20,110 was probably no real serious threat I'd 1112 00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:24,340 mention that because in assessing after 1113 00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:26,290 the recall what I was going to do the 1114 00:52:24,340 --> 00:52:31,270 only area where there was a significant 1115 00:52:26,290 --> 00:52:33,610 black population was in Oakland in San 1116 00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:36,460 Francisco there's only 10% in Oakland it 1117 00:52:33,610 --> 00:52:39,790 was probably about a third so given the 1118 00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:41,830 kind of politics I had and and my 1119 00:52:39,790 --> 00:52:43,750 politics arose from brought up in the 1120 00:52:41,830 --> 00:52:46,780 south where politics was very black and 1121 00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:48,460 white and if you were black politician 1122 00:52:46,780 --> 00:52:49,870 my experience was you were there to 1123 00:52:48,460 --> 00:52:51,160 fight for the interests of the black 1124 00:52:49,870 --> 00:52:53,290 community and that's what I said in 1125 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,690 Berkeley although they weren't listening 1126 00:52:53,290 --> 00:52:59,440 when I was elected they found out that I 1127 00:52:55,690 --> 00:53:02,110 was serious about it but with that kind 1128 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:04,270 of politics it was not very difficult to 1129 00:53:02,110 --> 00:53:07,030 re-emerge on the Berkeley political 1130 00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:09,450 scene with only 25 percent I want all 1131 00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:11,710 the black precincts in the room call 1132 00:53:09,450 --> 00:53:13,600 open was the only realistic possibility 1133 00:53:11,710 --> 00:53:14,150 the marcantel politics and I knew that 1134 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,210 if I 1135 00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:19,160 Oakland and I had an opportunity to go 1136 00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:20,900 into the law office of Don McCallum a 1137 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,750 prominent black lawyer you know who was 1138 00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:25,789 also the Berkeley City Attorney but I 1139 00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:31,339 moved that I would probably encounter 1140 00:53:25,789 --> 00:53:33,289 Jiri and he was rough character and it 1141 00:53:31,339 --> 00:53:38,140 could have potentially been some violent 1142 00:53:33,289 --> 00:53:41,630 repercussions either to him with me and 1143 00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:44,089 and then I also really was kind of 1144 00:53:41,630 --> 00:53:46,789 wanted to get back to canary the country 1145 00:53:44,089 --> 00:53:48,770 where there were no black presents than 1146 00:53:46,789 --> 00:53:50,779 I felt on the bay in California 1147 00:53:48,770 --> 00:53:54,170 California the great state to just you 1148 00:53:50,779 --> 00:53:56,750 know get that for Western and you know 1149 00:53:54,170 --> 00:53:59,450 the percentage of blacks is just small 1150 00:53:56,750 --> 00:54:01,849 and I just didn't feel comfortable 1151 00:53:59,450 --> 00:54:03,440 having grown up in the south and I 1152 00:54:01,849 --> 00:54:05,329 really had not planned to stay in 1153 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,970 California permanently I just was 1154 00:54:05,329 --> 00:54:09,980 enjoying myself so that I stayed longer 1155 00:54:07,970 --> 00:54:17,170 than I planned end up being out there 1156 00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:19,789 six years so the small number of blacks 1157 00:54:17,170 --> 00:54:22,099 proportionately in the Bay Area and in 1158 00:54:19,789 --> 00:54:23,480 California and then you have to travel 1159 00:54:22,099 --> 00:54:24,859 all the way across the country before 1160 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,170 you got to any other area whether 1161 00:54:24,859 --> 00:54:31,549 insignificant blacks either the Midwest 1162 00:54:27,170 --> 00:54:34,400 or south or north east the time 1163 00:54:31,549 --> 00:54:38,980 difference you didn't get the seasons to 1164 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:44,799 change it whether summer winter fall and 1165 00:54:38,980 --> 00:54:47,809 so those were some of the things that I 1166 00:54:44,799 --> 00:54:49,670 evaluated in making my decision to 1167 00:54:47,809 --> 00:54:51,200 return to Memphis and start to practice 1168 00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:53,990 law or as opposed to staying in 1169 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,910 California okay well if there's no where 1170 00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:59,079 we think we're out of the first tape so 1171 00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:59,079 we just gonna switch off ice